So recently I found a family member semi-talking behind my back about how my "points and logic" sent another family member into a faith-based nervous breakdown.
He went on to say that religion is actually a net positive thing for our world because of how it brought morality to naturally immoral humans. I had to lol at this, but I also had a break it down further. I am responding here to my brother, but you all get the drift. ------------------------------
Okay first, 1) If "points and logic" send you into a nervous breakdown, then your system of beliefs is extremely fragile. That's your OWN logic trying to escape the grasp of your useless petty faith. Once you let your own logic and reason escape, your life, and everyone around you is better.
2) I'm saddened that he thinks that of me. But it shows his ignorance - because he's never brought up religion around me ever. He obviously sees/hears how I treat certain people on Facebook. The only people that I treat like that on Facebook are people that don't matter to me at all. I use them as practice for when I get confronted on my own beliefs. Debating and insulting them gives me insight into their defenses, and affords me better preparation when I run into people like Len, or when Albert tries to tell me that there's nothing wrong with religion.
3) You've done a really great job so far. Your rebuttals are spot on. Okay, my response to his religion/morality statement would be:
C) I would chastise him for not reading a bit more before he illogically assumes that religion gave us morals. I would also show him this and hope it pisses him off: http://thewordofme.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/christian-dark-ages1.jpg. It may not necessarily be 100% true, but it should still piss him off nonetheless.
D) I would then reason to him that while he is correct that religious people started or managed many things like schools, hospitals, charities, and governments, they also murdered thsoe who didn't believe what they believed, so who would have been LEFT to start all of those things??
And if you presume for a moment that those things would have eventually started regardless as we grew, aged, matured, and were educated, I think if they were done without God, they would be way more valuable and wasted a lot less time on faith-based topics, and a lot more time on science and space exploration, among other things.
Religious people will always say that. Throw in your face that they started most hospitals, schools, etc. But if you were living 1000 years ago, and some guys with torches came to you (as an atheist) and said "HEY! Do you believe that Jesus is God? If you say no, we're going to stab and burn you." You'd probably be like, "Oh yeah, for sure. Jesus rules man." They'd reply, "Well you have to come to this building every Sunday and talk to him. And give us a bit of your income to support our quest to spread the word of his name." You'd be like "Sure, I'll do anything, just don't kill me."
Then, when you later became a great scientist of your time, making discoveries related to whatever field, and you published your work, do you not think people would say, "The Catholic scientist Benesh was a leader in his field, and his church. He blah blah blah... " of course they would! And it's infuriating. When you go around killing and excommunicating people, and then 1500 years later look around the world and find yourself in the majority and you did a lot of good stuff along the way, you can't be proud.
You did it on the dead bodies of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, or ruined the lives of those who told the truth against you. So don't tell me I should be grateful that you started schools and hospitals when "nobody else would". If religion was never created by humans, non-religious good people would be stepping up to do good works just like they are now.
Don't believe me? Read this: "Regarding “group efforts”—Kiva.org, the micro-financing organization that has distributed $261 million to people in 61 nations, has “lending teams” that post their generous efforts online. The leading team on Jan 4, 2013, is “Atheists, Agnostics, Skeptics, Freethinkers, Secular Humanists, and the Non-Religious.” These 23,691 benevolent blasphemers have lent $9,587,000 in 326,318 loans. Their simple motto is: “We loan because we care about the suffering of human beings.”
Trailing behind in the #2 slot are the “Kiva Christians” who have loaned $6,012,000. Their supernatural rallying cry is, “We loan because: Pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their misfortune and to keep oneself unstained by the world. (James 1:27)”"
I can imagine some criticism will be "Well Christians already donate 10% of their money to the church, so they wouldn't have much left to donate to kiva.org recipients." Bullshit. We all know that very very few will actually give 10% of their income. Is that gross or net anyway? I have been meaning to find out.